The Sunday News
We continue our interview with Cde Tapson Ncube pseudonym Makhula Thebe who operated in Lupane and Nkayi districts which fell under the Zipra operational zone code named Northern Front 2 (NF2).
In the past two instalments Cde Ncube has spoken about his political activities as a Zapu youth leader in Bulawayo, how he joined the armed struggle and last week narrated how Mwembeshi in Zambia was opened up as a training camp.
He also spoke about the problems at Mgagao during the period where efforts were being made to combine Zipra and Zanla forces to form the Zimbabwe People’s Army (Zipa).
Today Cde Ncube in the interview with our Assistant Editor Mkhululi Sibanda (MS) talks about resuming training at Morogoro in Tanzania after the Mgagao problems.
MS: Take us through what happened after the problems at Mgagao.
Cde Ncube: After skirmishing from Mgagao we melted into the bush. It was now self-command as we made the breakthrough from a hail of bullets directed at us. After moving from about three kilometres darkness fell, we did not know the terrain. I was in a group of at least 120 comrades and after covering more ground we started feeling hungry. Fortunately we got to a field or was it a farm where there was a good maize crop and that farmer lost a lot as comrades started helping themselves onto his crop, raw as it was. We behaved like baboons that day. We continued moving being led by the sound of traffic and eventually we reached the main road where we found trucks belonging to the Tanzanian Government moving up and down looking for us. They had heard about what had happened at Mgagao and were now looking for us, so the trucks ferried us to Morogoro, which was a Zipra camp. That is where we resumed our training. Although we agreed to be ferried by the Tanzanian security forces, we did it out of desperation as we did not trust the Government of Julius Nyerere. There was a feeling within Zipra that President Nyerere had a soft spot for Zanu compared to Zapu. That emanated from the talk that President Nyerere and Zapu leader, Dr Joshua Nkomo had their own differences and Dr Nkomo even later on wrote about it in his autobiography, The Story of My Life.
MS: At Morogoro your group was still intact?
Cde Ncube: Besides the about 45 whom we lost at Mgagao the rest including our instructors found their way to Morogoro. When we got to Morogoro the Group of 137 had moved from the camp and settled at not so long a distance. It was at Morogoro that we met the famous and tough, the now late, Eddie Sigoge Mlotshwa. We did not have him at Mwembeshi as one of our instructors. The camp commander at Morogoro was Sam Mfakazi, the political commissar being Gedi (late Retired Colonel Richard Dube), all our Mwembeshi instructors whom we had also gone with to Mgagao such as Stanley Gagisa, Khwela (Chitambo) were there as well. There was also Professor Enos Malandu, an accomplished academic who had left the comfort of European life to come down and join the armed struggle. Sam Madondo who was an intelligence officer taught us intelligence. He took us through many strategic issues, among them how to stage a coup as well as counter it. As for the training it was very tough what with people like Sigoge using live ammunition on recruits while crawling under barbed wire entanglements. Zipra training was no child’s play.
MS: You are talking about being taught about coups. Why?
Cde Ncube: Cde Madondo made it clear to us that within Zipra there were dangerous elements who were anti-party, Zapu. There were commanders and senior party officials who felt that the party should dance to their tune and those people were working with international agents to change the leadership of the party.
MS: Are you sure?
Cde Ncube: It’s a fact that we had sell-outs and very ambitious people within the system, especially at the top. Those things happened.
MS: After training where were you deployed?
Cde Ncube: After training some of our comrades such as Mafutha were deployed to the front, others sent for further training. I was sent to the then Soviet Union for further training where I specialised in anti-air. The leader of our group was Rodwell Nyika, who was already a serving guerilla. He was put in our group as commander. From our Group of 800 some of the people I went with were Volunteer (Andrew Ndlovu), the now late Soneni Moyo, who was the son of Zapu stalwart Vote Moyo. Soneni was the camp commander of Gwayi River Mine Assembly Point after the war. Others were Chauke, who went into teaching at Robert Sinyoka after independence, Orders Mlilo, Khilikhiya Nyathi and Clever John Dube among others. Besides our group which was led by Rodwell, there was another of 20 guys we had trained with that was going for intelligence training in the Soviet Union as well. That group was under the command of Thodlana (Tshaka Moyo), who was already serving in the intelligence service.
MS: How was your training in the Soviet Union?
Cde Ncube: It was an eye opener, things were sophisticated there. My training and those who were in the anti-air section, we were 15 concentrated on the use of the Zegeu-an anti-aircraft weapon. For our practicals or demonstrations we would be taken to the Black Sea, it was exciting. It was during my time in the Soviet Union that I fell in love with Marxism. You know in the afternoons at times we would be allowed to go and visit the library in the military facility where we were staying. I ploughed into everything that contained Marxism, in fact I read Karl Marx and Lenin from Volume One to Six. I then started to see things in different lenses and I think those are the things that put me into a collision course with the Zipra High Command. However, I will talk about my problems with the High Command later on as this interview progresses. Going back to our time in the Soviet Union I was disappointed by the lack of reading culture among the comrades.
MS: So among you who else loved reading?
Cde Ncube: From the more than 70 in our group, not including those who had come for intelligence training since they were taken to another place, I can say we were very few. It was myself, Volunteer (Andrew Ndlovu), who was still very young then, Khilikhiya Nyathi and Orders Mlilo. You should also understand that among us there were comrades who had not covered much ground at school. Some even had problems understanding what the instructors were saying as the Russian instructors spoke in their native language while there was an interpreter who had some command of English. There was no time for SiNdebele, Shona, Kalanga, Venda, Sotho, Tonga and other languages found in our country. So in the Soviet Union we benefited a lot in terms of ideological training and military skills. From the Soviet Union I emerged as a fine tuned armed politician. I was ideologically clear. One of our instructors was a well-grounded Russian soldier who had fought in the Second World War. He was 100 percent communist. What was interesting also was because at the military facility there were other liberation movements that we came across and that made some of us understand a lot of issues regarding the problems the imperialist forces were creating around the world.
MS: Which were those?
Cde Ncube. We met comrades from Swapo of Namibia, Frelimo of Mozambique although they had just attained their independence, PLO, our cousins from MK of South Africa and MPLA from Angola. However, we did not mix during training sessions, we would meet during meal times and at parade. We also met the Cubans there. It was while we were in the Soviet Union that party leader, Cde Joshua Nkomo came into that country. He came to visit us and told us about the death of Jason Ziyapapa Moyo. A meeting was also organised for him at a place where a ceremony to mark the end of the World War 2 was signed. That meeting was also attended by the local residents and that is when my political thinking rose to another level. During Dr Nkomo’s address where he spoke about the dangers of imperialism and that those against it should use all means to fight it, some people in the crowd shed a tear or two. The Soviet people wept with some saying Lenin had resurrected as a black person, it was a touching experience to see so many whites moved by an address by an African revolutionary. Later on he asked to meet us alone.
MS: During that meeting what was his message?
Cde Ncube: During his address to us, Dr Nkomo surprised us by jumping onto the table as he opted to sit on the table while facing us instead of using a chair. We were shocked by the agility of the man, carrying such a big body. One of the comrades asked him whether he was safe, considering that JZ Moyo had been killed in a parcel bomb, he chose not to be direct in his answer.
MS: What did he say?
Cde Ncube: Typical of him, he said if you young people armed as you are choose to turn your AK-47s at me, it would take you 30 years to free Zimbabwe and after that you will even continue killing each other. There would be no peace in the country.
– To be continued new week with Cde Ncube talking about his arrest by the Zipra High Command in Zambia and thrown into detention pits at the Freedom Camp (FC).
